I get your frustration, but I find this argument a bit reductive and unproductive. It’s true, a social democrat won’t end capitalism, but it makes a massive difference to those in New York and could potentially make a big difference in US politics going forward.
Interesting read thank you! Mainly agreed, would definitely describe him as a social Democrat. However, I still find (optimistically) hope in this swing… what I find hope in is firstly the number of people who supported “socialist” policy, a clear sign that the masses are wanting something new and that socialism can gain traction. Leftist groups continuing to build on this momentum in the ground in New York and elsewhere even around the world to raise consciousness and advocate for what socialism can obviously do for the working masses is vital, as no the system won’t be changed or even challenged by one reformist, but the opening up to socialist ideals is ultimately a hopeful swing in my view. Would love to hear your thoughts on that?
I agree that the fight for public perception concerning socialism is important. Another important aspect is that the public gets an accurate rather than an inaccurate perception of what socialism is versus what it isn’t. People think socialism is free healthcare when that’s not the case. I definitely want socialism to become popular in the public psyche but a more accurate and less reformist version.
Uh I thought everyone was aware that he’s a social democrat, a progressive. Are people claiming he’s a revolutionary or anything other than an aspiring reformer? This all seems self-evident to me but maybe people really are that delusional.
This article is factual. I also think that this is different than other ‘hope’ generating democrat campaigns. While Mamdani does not claim to be a socialist, ran as a democrat, having the word socialist in his orbit, having him attacked as a communist, and seeing that those labels did not scare away the voters, is hopeful for revolution. People in the United States have been awash in capitalist propaganda for so long that I think seeing this campaign and energy is a necessary stepping stone. Now it’s up to the rest of us to not get complacent but to continue to push general society out of their comfort zones and open their minds to what else is possible..
It feels like explaining to a 5 year old that politicians make promises that they often don’t keep. Case in point, how many republicans promise to make places more affordable? Put your critical thinking cap on now. Maybe it’s the system that needs to be changed rather than depending on a singular person?
The system is built brick by brick, person by person. Can you do basic addition? Besides you’re speaking too soon. Stop being a petulant child and actually work towards having gentle curiosity with people who have been radicalized by our oligarchy …
So you’re now advocating for mass action based on individuals? That’s not how any social movement is built. Maybe stop being defensive, take a step back, get involved and read more than perhaps you’ll have an idea of what I’m talking about. I even linked to free versions of everything I’ve quoted.
I love your projection. I love that you’re making strawman arguments because you can’t even argue that points I’ve made. I’m dealing with someone who makes a direct comparison of fascism to capitalism. You’re clueless!
As someone who identifies as a Social Democratic Nationalist (which, after reading your piece, might sound to you like the worst thing imaginable), I’m often hit by this wondering of what that “something better” actually is. Because if your framework boils down to Capitalism=Oppression and Socialism=Liberation, you’re not actually understanding how these systems of oppression actually oppress.
I’m not even going to touch the whole “social fascism” bit—that’s just stupid. Even on a practical level, it’s impossible to build a mass movement when you view everyone from Social Democrats onward as a different shade of fascist. That’s like saying everyone who isn’t an apple is just a different flavor of lemon.
I think a socialist revolution in the United States right now is compeltely unrealistic. Most of the country is right-winged, even people voting for democrats. Someone like Mamdani can help bend the popularion’s ideals into more of a left-wing ideology, which can help a later revolution. I personally don’t think hope can be intoxicating, at least not in the bad sense of the word. Especially now, with the state of the world. This world isn’t black or white, reformists aren’t fascists. There are steps, and this one is a very important one. If Mamdani’s policies actually come into fruition and work, more and more people will start to understand how socialism can help us all. I am very hopeful for this situation!!
I agree, and DEFINITELY not happening in NYC. I’m not a leftist, but transforming into a socialist system will take either 1) a VERY long time or 2) a complete overthrow of the government & construction of a new, entirely different socialist one. Which to me, isn’t happening (at least anytime soon). USA has been a capitalist nation since the revolution.
This was interesting and nice to have a perspective from a fellow bronx-born person —I’m also born and raised in the BX and still living here.
I do think that Zohran’s win is more than optics and it truly depends on how engaged WE stay as his constituency and as participants in this current political system. I also think it’s important to highlight that not only ‘well-read scholarly gen-z/millennial leftist’ voted and feel hopeful for Zohran —my mother, in her sixties, and so many people like her, voted for him too. Being here throughout his campaign and seeing how he’s affected our community has already made his win worth something. My mom, aunts, uncles and many community members rallying behind him and becoming more engaged in local politics than ever before, is worth something. I can feel the shift in the political psyche. And it’s not just a blind following of the next shining star, we deserve more credit than that and we know better than that.
While I agree that hope is fleeting, and there is a valid critique to be made, we should also take caution when talking down to the masses from the mountain of books on theory. If this is what it takes to have our community engaged, it is valuable.
Yes, it may seem like step .0001 but, it’s a step. Zohran was able to message and build a campaign around economic populism that was clear to understand. Concision is crucial to getting people on board. The reality is that working class folks aren’t tryna burn it all down, we actually want to LIVE. Calm, and dare I say dignified (sigh) lives in this city. My mom wants to live out her retirement comfortably, my uncles and aunts want the same, after 40+ years of back breaking work. I know, capitalism. But what do we say to them, when they are exhausted and SO rightfully so? It’s a lot to ask these same people to burn it all down for the ‘revolutionary’ sake of it. I have a strong feeling that this is not what the community I am a part of wants.
The work is not over and again, I think you should pause and give credit to us, your community, for showing up in ways that challenge the conventions. You know, the grandmother who wants Cuomo cause… more police… and she’s worried about getting caught in a random act of violence on her way home, the uncle who (maybe) wants to vote for Sliwa because he remembers when the guardian angels started. i could go on. point is, Zohran, because of his messaging, was able to pull some of these people in.
I know that we’re resilient enough to hold his feet to the fire. To not let up. In this moment, we have to keep the pressure, we have to keep working to bring each other in. I’m not sure it matters if our elders and comrades know if he’s a social democrat or a democratic socialist by definition, what matters to us is what he has messaged and, now, how we hold him to account for that messaging.
Unfortunately, this feels like a scolding to the community of people who we often claim to represent? It feels like what Fanon so expertly scrutinized about the educated masses. So who really are we talking to/about?
Watching Zohran highlight my hood, Fordham Rd, and galvanize/unify my community is something. I, at least in my lifetime, have not seen that. Also, there’s a really dope socialist teacher running for Congress in District 15. He’s running against Ritchie Torres. His name is Andre Easton. I know that the groundwork that Zohran, his campaign and his election has laid will further push our community to engage with and eventually elect Andre. For many, Zohran brought them to the court, we just have to start playing. I have faith that our community can.
side bar: Zohran was listed under both Democratic and Working Families (which I guess, you might also take issue with) lines on the ballot, so people could vote under either or. If this is a case against the two party system then I can assume this disqualifies that part of the argument at least. If you lived here and chose to vote, you would know that.
Maintaining capitalism will just allow the pendulum to swing back.
I offer the present moment as evidence.
The "New Deal" has been swept away and capital has been on the attack since 1971 (and earlier).
We've got 20 years until there's a coherent reformist movement and in the mean time there will be 10's of thousands of "state enemies" pulled out of their beds, run off their jobs, and silenced through violence.
Voting for social democracy is voting for the pendulum. It's better to build real socialist power than get distracted with elections.
I am not sure what your essay is about. You define labels — fascism, social democracy, socialism. But what’s your real argument? Pro, against, skeptical, … what are you really concerned about?
Absolutely spot on. You cannot change the entire system by giving it a face lift once in a while; and Mamdani is just a facelift. If anything, he’s complicit in the system because he’s directing valuable energy away from a total system reform and channeling people’s optimism back into the system.
So we can all be idealist, and bitch and moan that an unrealistic solution isn’t coming our way. Or we can put the hard work into gradual change as that is what is realistic. I choose the ladder because idealistic is not realistic unfortunately…
Experts once thought running a mile under four minutes was unrealistic. Then in 1954, Roger Bannister ran 3:59.4. His run didn’t just break a record. It showed that what seems unrealistic is often just a matter of no one having done it yet. His achievement inspired others to go even faster and today people do what would have once seemed impossible all because he dared to be unrealistic. If you settle for crumbs cause you think you can never have the cake then you’ll never have the cake.
Yeah when Bernie lost the general election we were gifted with a crushing Trump presidency, and when we went for a more central (way too centrist for my taste, believe me) we got a single term presidency followed by 70 million voters voting for Trump. I don’t think you realize how stupid the general public is. I wish we had more intelligence and could do radical things but I just don’t see it. Something radical could happen and I’m not saying it’s impossible but I’d put my money on the consistent proven methods
I get what you’re saying… but also I think that what you call stupidity is more like disempowerment and lack of options than actual stupidity. Like, I think the radical thing right now would be to push for election reforms because the slower things go the more inequalities widen and the more people continue to make disempowered stupid decisions until the only option to bring back balance is war or violence. I mean, tried and true methods are good but also the world has changed a lot since these methods were invented mainly because of all the wars and the fallout they created, it’s a bit like trying to race a car with a horse and carriage. Idk I just think that the quicker the people organise and push for meaningful reforms the quicker quality of life will improve and so will the options that allow the masses to make informed and intelligent decisions. Like, people don’t vote for dictators in abundant times- they all rise to power when people have no options… Trump, Hitler, Pol Pot… it’s always the same pattern.
Really gotta disagree here. Not sure if you still live in New York but the vibe shift is palpable. I gotta ask: what single person do you believe has done more to advance left wing politics in the US in the last year? Trying to understand what your idea of realized success looks like.
Well that’s unfortunate, but I suppose it would help explain why they seem so insulated from what’s going on in New York City. Mamdani has harnessed a real movement filled with fantastic and freshly motivated people. He has accomplished more in this city to furthering Left-wing politics than anyone I can think of in my lifetime (I’m in my 20s, born and raised NYer).
It is, quite. I went to New York for the first time last December (before Biden was out) and had a wonderful time for the week that I was there. As a British born American, I love seeing what he’s done and it gives me hope yo be able to move there so I’m closer to family (I was raised between London and California) but with how rent is currently I wouldn’t even be able to split it with a friend. But hopefully in the coming years I’ll be able to be there as it’s a city I fell in love with.
Yea. I did not think you could. You’re just a cosplay GI Joe like ICE boy nazi fuck Bovino.
Killing more women and children so you can say you stood up to the bad guys that killed women and children is a take.
Also tells me you never worked a day in your life to improve the lives of anyone because those of us that have, care more about the people that the fancy words you want to slap on arbitrarily.
What about it? So we should just start a violent war in which they will for sure die?
As I said you consider women as fodder and you have proved my point by using women’s lives as talking points for you to be right, rather than acknowledging they are actual fucking humans.
So yea, we are going to try grown up solutions because all you key board warriors have to offer is violent responses to the way everyone else is doing it.
As the Arabs say, rain starts with a drop
I get your frustration, but I find this argument a bit reductive and unproductive. It’s true, a social democrat won’t end capitalism, but it makes a massive difference to those in New York and could potentially make a big difference in US politics going forward.
I agree with you. It's frustrating how we will always turn a win into a loss.
Exactly
Interesting read thank you! Mainly agreed, would definitely describe him as a social Democrat. However, I still find (optimistically) hope in this swing… what I find hope in is firstly the number of people who supported “socialist” policy, a clear sign that the masses are wanting something new and that socialism can gain traction. Leftist groups continuing to build on this momentum in the ground in New York and elsewhere even around the world to raise consciousness and advocate for what socialism can obviously do for the working masses is vital, as no the system won’t be changed or even challenged by one reformist, but the opening up to socialist ideals is ultimately a hopeful swing in my view. Would love to hear your thoughts on that?
I agree that the fight for public perception concerning socialism is important. Another important aspect is that the public gets an accurate rather than an inaccurate perception of what socialism is versus what it isn’t. People think socialism is free healthcare when that’s not the case. I definitely want socialism to become popular in the public psyche but a more accurate and less reformist version.
While I understand the sentiment, I feel this is, at least, proof of a shift in the right direction of the public psyche.
Uh I thought everyone was aware that he’s a social democrat, a progressive. Are people claiming he’s a revolutionary or anything other than an aspiring reformer? This all seems self-evident to me but maybe people really are that delusional.
This article is factual. I also think that this is different than other ‘hope’ generating democrat campaigns. While Mamdani does not claim to be a socialist, ran as a democrat, having the word socialist in his orbit, having him attacked as a communist, and seeing that those labels did not scare away the voters, is hopeful for revolution. People in the United States have been awash in capitalist propaganda for so long that I think seeing this campaign and energy is a necessary stepping stone. Now it’s up to the rest of us to not get complacent but to continue to push general society out of their comfort zones and open their minds to what else is possible..
Communist guy fleeing NYC in terror because Zohran is a social democrat
I left New York a while ago because it was unaffordable for my family. Assumptions make an ass out of yourself in this instance.
Wait, didn’t Zohran’s entire platform run on making New York more affordable?
It feels like explaining to a 5 year old that politicians make promises that they often don’t keep. Case in point, how many republicans promise to make places more affordable? Put your critical thinking cap on now. Maybe it’s the system that needs to be changed rather than depending on a singular person?
The system is built brick by brick, person by person. Can you do basic addition? Besides you’re speaking too soon. Stop being a petulant child and actually work towards having gentle curiosity with people who have been radicalized by our oligarchy …
So you’re now advocating for mass action based on individuals? That’s not how any social movement is built. Maybe stop being defensive, take a step back, get involved and read more than perhaps you’ll have an idea of what I’m talking about. I even linked to free versions of everything I’ve quoted.
I love your projection. I love that you’re making strawman arguments because you can’t even argue that points I’ve made. I’m dealing with someone who makes a direct comparison of fascism to capitalism. You’re clueless!
As someone who identifies as a Social Democratic Nationalist (which, after reading your piece, might sound to you like the worst thing imaginable), I’m often hit by this wondering of what that “something better” actually is. Because if your framework boils down to Capitalism=Oppression and Socialism=Liberation, you’re not actually understanding how these systems of oppression actually oppress.
I’m not even going to touch the whole “social fascism” bit—that’s just stupid. Even on a practical level, it’s impossible to build a mass movement when you view everyone from Social Democrats onward as a different shade of fascist. That’s like saying everyone who isn’t an apple is just a different flavor of lemon.
I think a socialist revolution in the United States right now is compeltely unrealistic. Most of the country is right-winged, even people voting for democrats. Someone like Mamdani can help bend the popularion’s ideals into more of a left-wing ideology, which can help a later revolution. I personally don’t think hope can be intoxicating, at least not in the bad sense of the word. Especially now, with the state of the world. This world isn’t black or white, reformists aren’t fascists. There are steps, and this one is a very important one. If Mamdani’s policies actually come into fruition and work, more and more people will start to understand how socialism can help us all. I am very hopeful for this situation!!
I agree, and DEFINITELY not happening in NYC. I’m not a leftist, but transforming into a socialist system will take either 1) a VERY long time or 2) a complete overthrow of the government & construction of a new, entirely different socialist one. Which to me, isn’t happening (at least anytime soon). USA has been a capitalist nation since the revolution.
This was interesting and nice to have a perspective from a fellow bronx-born person —I’m also born and raised in the BX and still living here.
I do think that Zohran’s win is more than optics and it truly depends on how engaged WE stay as his constituency and as participants in this current political system. I also think it’s important to highlight that not only ‘well-read scholarly gen-z/millennial leftist’ voted and feel hopeful for Zohran —my mother, in her sixties, and so many people like her, voted for him too. Being here throughout his campaign and seeing how he’s affected our community has already made his win worth something. My mom, aunts, uncles and many community members rallying behind him and becoming more engaged in local politics than ever before, is worth something. I can feel the shift in the political psyche. And it’s not just a blind following of the next shining star, we deserve more credit than that and we know better than that.
While I agree that hope is fleeting, and there is a valid critique to be made, we should also take caution when talking down to the masses from the mountain of books on theory. If this is what it takes to have our community engaged, it is valuable.
Yes, it may seem like step .0001 but, it’s a step. Zohran was able to message and build a campaign around economic populism that was clear to understand. Concision is crucial to getting people on board. The reality is that working class folks aren’t tryna burn it all down, we actually want to LIVE. Calm, and dare I say dignified (sigh) lives in this city. My mom wants to live out her retirement comfortably, my uncles and aunts want the same, after 40+ years of back breaking work. I know, capitalism. But what do we say to them, when they are exhausted and SO rightfully so? It’s a lot to ask these same people to burn it all down for the ‘revolutionary’ sake of it. I have a strong feeling that this is not what the community I am a part of wants.
The work is not over and again, I think you should pause and give credit to us, your community, for showing up in ways that challenge the conventions. You know, the grandmother who wants Cuomo cause… more police… and she’s worried about getting caught in a random act of violence on her way home, the uncle who (maybe) wants to vote for Sliwa because he remembers when the guardian angels started. i could go on. point is, Zohran, because of his messaging, was able to pull some of these people in.
I know that we’re resilient enough to hold his feet to the fire. To not let up. In this moment, we have to keep the pressure, we have to keep working to bring each other in. I’m not sure it matters if our elders and comrades know if he’s a social democrat or a democratic socialist by definition, what matters to us is what he has messaged and, now, how we hold him to account for that messaging.
Unfortunately, this feels like a scolding to the community of people who we often claim to represent? It feels like what Fanon so expertly scrutinized about the educated masses. So who really are we talking to/about?
Watching Zohran highlight my hood, Fordham Rd, and galvanize/unify my community is something. I, at least in my lifetime, have not seen that. Also, there’s a really dope socialist teacher running for Congress in District 15. He’s running against Ritchie Torres. His name is Andre Easton. I know that the groundwork that Zohran, his campaign and his election has laid will further push our community to engage with and eventually elect Andre. For many, Zohran brought them to the court, we just have to start playing. I have faith that our community can.
side bar: Zohran was listed under both Democratic and Working Families (which I guess, you might also take issue with) lines on the ballot, so people could vote under either or. If this is a case against the two party system then I can assume this disqualifies that part of the argument at least. If you lived here and chose to vote, you would know that.
OP no longer lives in NYC.
Social Democracy is the left wing of fascism. 💯
Maintaining capitalism will just allow the pendulum to swing back.
I offer the present moment as evidence.
The "New Deal" has been swept away and capital has been on the attack since 1971 (and earlier).
We've got 20 years until there's a coherent reformist movement and in the mean time there will be 10's of thousands of "state enemies" pulled out of their beds, run off their jobs, and silenced through violence.
Voting for social democracy is voting for the pendulum. It's better to build real socialist power than get distracted with elections.
Well said, we need to build a viable movement not just focusing on elections. We need a party for workers by workers.
I am not sure what your essay is about. You define labels — fascism, social democracy, socialism. But what’s your real argument? Pro, against, skeptical, … what are you really concerned about?
Absolutely spot on. You cannot change the entire system by giving it a face lift once in a while; and Mamdani is just a facelift. If anything, he’s complicit in the system because he’s directing valuable energy away from a total system reform and channeling people’s optimism back into the system.
So we can all be idealist, and bitch and moan that an unrealistic solution isn’t coming our way. Or we can put the hard work into gradual change as that is what is realistic. I choose the ladder because idealistic is not realistic unfortunately…
Experts once thought running a mile under four minutes was unrealistic. Then in 1954, Roger Bannister ran 3:59.4. His run didn’t just break a record. It showed that what seems unrealistic is often just a matter of no one having done it yet. His achievement inspired others to go even faster and today people do what would have once seemed impossible all because he dared to be unrealistic. If you settle for crumbs cause you think you can never have the cake then you’ll never have the cake.
Yeah when Bernie lost the general election we were gifted with a crushing Trump presidency, and when we went for a more central (way too centrist for my taste, believe me) we got a single term presidency followed by 70 million voters voting for Trump. I don’t think you realize how stupid the general public is. I wish we had more intelligence and could do radical things but I just don’t see it. Something radical could happen and I’m not saying it’s impossible but I’d put my money on the consistent proven methods
I get what you’re saying… but also I think that what you call stupidity is more like disempowerment and lack of options than actual stupidity. Like, I think the radical thing right now would be to push for election reforms because the slower things go the more inequalities widen and the more people continue to make disempowered stupid decisions until the only option to bring back balance is war or violence. I mean, tried and true methods are good but also the world has changed a lot since these methods were invented mainly because of all the wars and the fallout they created, it’s a bit like trying to race a car with a horse and carriage. Idk I just think that the quicker the people organise and push for meaningful reforms the quicker quality of life will improve and so will the options that allow the masses to make informed and intelligent decisions. Like, people don’t vote for dictators in abundant times- they all rise to power when people have no options… Trump, Hitler, Pol Pot… it’s always the same pattern.
Really gotta disagree here. Not sure if you still live in New York but the vibe shift is palpable. I gotta ask: what single person do you believe has done more to advance left wing politics in the US in the last year? Trying to understand what your idea of realized success looks like.
OP no longer lives in New York as they had to move out due to the fact it was no longer affordable to them.
Well that’s unfortunate, but I suppose it would help explain why they seem so insulated from what’s going on in New York City. Mamdani has harnessed a real movement filled with fantastic and freshly motivated people. He has accomplished more in this city to furthering Left-wing politics than anyone I can think of in my lifetime (I’m in my 20s, born and raised NYer).
It is, quite. I went to New York for the first time last December (before Biden was out) and had a wonderful time for the week that I was there. As a British born American, I love seeing what he’s done and it gives me hope yo be able to move there so I’m closer to family (I was raised between London and California) but with how rent is currently I wouldn’t even be able to split it with a friend. But hopefully in the coming years I’ll be able to be there as it’s a city I fell in love with.
He's not even a leftist.
This really opened my mind up. Thank you for speaking on this!!
It’s always men screaming for revolution. Because women and children are just as much fodder to you as writers of P2025.
You want the system to topple?
Name one example is history where there’s been a revolution that women and children were not slaughtered?
I think I’d rather try it Mamdani’s way first thanks.
So you’re cool that he is part of a party that funded a genocide which killed women and children?
Yea. I did not think you could. You’re just a cosplay GI Joe like ICE boy nazi fuck Bovino.
Killing more women and children so you can say you stood up to the bad guys that killed women and children is a take.
Also tells me you never worked a day in your life to improve the lives of anyone because those of us that have, care more about the people that the fancy words you want to slap on arbitrarily.
and what about when perpetual delays or “leftist” support for capitalism also ultimately slaughters women/children through capitalist violence?
What about it? So we should just start a violent war in which they will for sure die?
As I said you consider women as fodder and you have proved my point by using women’s lives as talking points for you to be right, rather than acknowledging they are actual fucking humans.
So yea, we are going to try grown up solutions because all you key board warriors have to offer is violent responses to the way everyone else is doing it.